When Strengths Become Weaknesses: How to avoid creating a negative impact | #29

Welcome to Unleash youh Impact Unlock Others, a podcast about inspiring leadership. We hope to bring you grounded wisdom, stories from real leaders and leave you feeling inspired. Let's dive in.

So welcome once more to Unleash youh Impact, Unlock Others. This is another leadership Unscripted episode where Rich and I talk about blind spots of leadership and how your greatest strength can hold you back.

So, Rich, hi.

Hi, Dave. All right.

Looking forward to this discussion today.

Yeah. Yeah, so am I.

Before we get into the bones of this, just be worth reflecting on in your leadership career. And we've all had blind spots. We've all still got blind spots.

What was a blind spot that you became aware of as a leader that was, once you became aware of it and could do something about it, transformed the way that you led?

Probably for me was worrying too much about what other people thought of me.

Oh, okay.

So that potentially impacted my decision making where sometimes I needed to make a braver decision and I didn't. But for worry what other people would think, how they would react and how they would respond.

And how did you discover that blind spot? What was the sort of catalyst to discovering. Oh, okay. I can see why that's getting in my way now. So.

So I don't think it was any particular event or feedback that people gave me.

I think it was just over a period of time reflecting on how I saw other people responding to my style, observing frustrations in people when I maybe flip flopped on decisions because I was worried about what people thought. So probably mainly self reflection, I think.

Yeah. Which is obviously really important. We've talked about that before on this podcast.

So the purpose of this episode really is to help anybody listening think about the positive ripples they create with their strengths, but also the potential for negative ripples when those strengths are overdone and become a weakness. And as I said, we might not be aware of that. We might have a blind spot to that.

So the connected leadership framework that Richard and I have talked about on this podcast recently is a framework for helping people understand how to develop greater leadership agility and leadership self awareness so that they can actually lead with greater impact. And today we're going to offer some antidotes to allow you to think about and flex and grow without losing your strengths.

I think that's really important to say. So. I remember somebody once said to me, the difference between strength and weakness is a bit like going up a hill.

Going up the hill and you're developing your strength, but when you get to the brow of the hill and you start going down the other side. That's when you tip a strength into potentially a weakness.

Yes.

Yeah, that's always sort of stayed with me, that analogy. So an overdone strength can become a blind spot and can become a weakness.

So, Rich, I've talked about my analogy of the heel, but I'd be keen to hear your view of when strengths become weaknesses and, and how that plays out.

Yeah, so I like that analogy a lot.

In coaching, when I talk to people about their potential blind spots or weaknesses, when I frame it as their strengths, potentially that are overplayed, that can help people become less defensive about thinking about their strengths. So I think it's a very good way to frame it because most leaders that I know have good intentions.

Yeah, absolutely.

And, you know, so they will care for their staff. They will try to put structure and process and create clarity inside a team. And they're all good things that a leader can do with good intent.

But let's take care, for example.

So we would say a good connected leader in the language that we use is somebody who is compassionate and caring, who listens and is very supportive and creates a trusting environment. That's all the things that you would expect a caring leader to do.

So, you know, that's all well and good, but the problem can come when, if you overplay that, you create an environment where people are not pushed, they're not stretched, and if you like, potentially they become molly coddled or over supported, if that's a good way to put it.

So you can have good intentions by creating a caring, trusting environment, but if that's overplayed, actually it can become a growth inhibitor and it can become something actually that can hold the team back and hold development of individuals back.

Yeah.

On the flip side of that, if you've got somebody who is quite a strong leader in terms of putting energy and pace and direction into a team, because we need that in our teams. But again, to use that analogy of the hill, if they overdo that, it can suddenly impact on the team.

Now maybe that person wants to go a faster rate than the team can cope with. They don't realize that there's a blind spot there that can cause real tensions in the team.

So in previous podcasts, we've talked about the connected leadership model, bringing it to life in terms of how it plays out, in terms of behavior and some of the Personas, natural Personas that come out from that. So we talked about the bold captain, the inspiring navigator, the diligent builder, and the caring shepherd.

It'd probably just be worth reconnecting people who haven't heard the episode to what those terms mean.

Yeah.

So when we talk about a connected leadership Persona, when we talk about Persona, if you like, that's a collection of attributes and styles and ways of working that shows itself up in a particular way. So the Bold Captain, for example, example in our connected leadership model, that's the top right hand quadrant.

So this is the person that pushes, they drive, they're focused on the big picture and they're focused on driving performance.

So those two things together, focusing on the big picture, driving performance, that creates a collection of attributes and stars that we call the Bold Captain Persona. So that's one example of a connected leadership Persona.

If you go then to the diagonal opposite on our connected leadership quadrant to what we call the Caring Shepherd. So the Caring shepherd actually is the polar opposite to a Bold Captain.

Yeah.

So this is a person who's very people focused and. And actually at the same time, they are very concerned for empowering people and giving people the power.

Yeah.

So the Caring shepherd is not concerned with taking and managing power and pushing, etc. Etc.

Actually, they're very people focused and they're very concerned with building that trusted, supportive environment and managing the harmony inside the team. So that's what we call the Caring shepherd Persona.

Yeah.

So they're two polar opposites, diagonal opposites on a model. And then the other two Personas, the one in the top left, that's what we call the inspiring navigator.

So like the Bold Captain, they're also focused on the big picture. But the difference with the Bold Captain is like the Care and Shepherd, actually they're very people focused.

Yeah.

So think of those two elements together.

Focus on the big picture, but taking people with you so that it's all about the vision, it's all about inspiring, and it's all about taking the people with them on a journey. On a journey. Yeah. So that's. That's the Inspire Navigator.

Then the polar opposite to the Inspire Navigator, actually, you got this wonderful vision and wonderful strategy that you want to get done. And actually what you need is you need your diligent builders to make it happen.

Yeah.

So the diligent builder is focused on performance, just like the Bold Captain, but it's also focused on, if you like, creating the capability inside the teams to get the job done. So this is the person who's very focused on process, very focused on getting stuff done.

And they drive, but in a way that's more aligned to building capability. Whereas the Bold Captain will just almost drive and be less concerned about developing capability inside.

Well, yeah, because the bold captain will drive to get results, whereas the digit builder will take people and build people's capability to produce the results.

To produce the results.

Yeah. So there's a slight. There's some. There are some sort of distinctions here that are similar.

Yes.

But also the nuances are quite, quite different.

Yes.

So I think it's worth looking at this topic of where blind spots can be a problem and how our greatest strength can hold us back through the lens, if you like, of these four Personas.

Yes. Yeah.

Because I think what we shouldn't do is, for example, if someone is a bold captain, they're listening to this and thinking, yeah, that kind of sounds like me.

That shouldn't be a label that we give them because obviously all of these Personas come with positives and negatives, strengths and weaknesses, and we don't want to label people. But what we want to see it as is a lens through which we look at their leadership style.

I think that wording is really important to use it as just a lens. And let's face it, we can all flex out of our natural style, whether we believe we can or not. We can. So let's take the bold captain. Yeah.

So just to remind people what you've just said, somebody who impacts direction into the team, generates energy and pace into the team. What might be the blind spots, rich of somebody who is good at doing that.

So I think with the bowl captain, because they potentially lack the focus on the people and it's all about the performance, what they might do if they're not aware is put too much pressure on over control and potentially actually not trust their team and the people around them. So this is about a leader who perhaps drives too hard and potentially loses connection with the team around them.

So it's focusing on the result more than the person. And there's a disproportionate focus on the result to the person.

And it's also injecting energy into the result, but it's injecting energy potentially without recognition of the impact on the team.

So we must all know a leader may be like this whole, at some point in time has driven too hard.

Yeah, yeah.

And lost connection with the people around them. I don't know whether you can think of an example of where that's happened in your career and what the impact of that was.

Yeah, well, there's a couple of people I can think of actually. When I work with bold captains, I find that quite Energizing and exciting.

And there's a couple of people I've worked with actually, where, you know, they were the archetypical bold captain. Right. And what was quite interesting is they're almost like a whirlwind that came into the room.

Yeah.

You know, so they injected the energy, they injected the insight, they injected the excitement and the passion and that was great. But my observation of those, there's two people I can think of, actually. You could almost see the team around them being like worn down.

Oh, here we go again. Because the energy was rarely toned down.

Right.

Or the energy was injected into the room without connecting with the people first.

Yeah, it makes sense.

So actually, you know, the potential for burning out your people or leaving them frustrated because actually they're just on the receiving end of this energy that they don't know what to do with can be. Can be actually something that works against you, that works with you. And then the danger is then that frustration.

Then the bold captain then becomes frustrated at the frustration and then pushes, you know, and it becomes a vicious circle.

Yeah. So this is where a degree of emotional intelligence comes in, isn't it?

To say, actually, I need to read the room, I need to read the temperature in my team.

Yes.

Because there's a time to turn up the heat and go for it. There's a time to dial it down a little bit.

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Because with the connected leadership model in the.

In the center of those four Personas, in the center of our connected leadership model is what we call the connected center.

So actually you might have a Persona that usually shows up for you as a leader, but actually the emotionally intelligent person would draw themselves back to the connected center, become self aware. This is the behavior I'm exhibiting in this environment. It's. Is it landing well? Is it serving me well? Or do I need to flex into a different Persona?

Which might be a bit of a challenge for me, but actually do I need to flex into this Persona because it's better matches this context.

And that was my next question. Rich really is, what's the antidote for somebody who is self aware to realize, actually I'm actually causing this problem in my team?

So I'm putting too much pace, energy, I'm driving too hard. I kind of realised it. What's the antidote for me? What do I need to do differently?

Well, I think the antidote to this is to recognise that just telling people, just telling people and driving and driving and driving can become really problematic. So flexing to being a coach so that's one of the key stars, if you like, in the caring shepherd Persona, the diagonal opposite.

So with a coach, coach is all about empowering people, asking questions, slowing down, not being in tail mode, and helping people to come to the answer for themselves. Which is the diagonal opposite of a bold captain style.

Yeah. And for anybody who's a bold captain thinking, well, that's just me flipping into that soft and fluffy nonsense which you've heard before.

No, actually, when you listen and listen properly, it doesn't mean you can't ask tough questions. It just means you're not telling all the time. I think that's the distinction you're making.

You can still challenge, but you do it in a slightly different way.

A powerful coach will support and challenge, but what we want the bold captain to do is to consciously flex into that coaching approach, slow down, stop, listen, ask questions and help people to come to the answer for themselves.

Yeah. So that's the bold captain. Let's talk about the inspiring navigator.

This is the person that's also quite visionary in terms of the strengths they bring to the team. They can see the big picture. They kind of got a sense of direction.

They can see the possibility and the innovation and they're quite good at motivating as well. Aspiring people, hence the name Inspiring Navigator. What might be the blind spots of somebody with these strengths as a leader?

So I think with the inspiring navigator, the potential danger for them is inspiring people to this fantastic vision and mission that you have, you know, this sense of purpose and getting people behind that and then not grounding that in actually. Okay, so how are we going to get this done? So the inspiring navigator is very good at the why, but potentially not very good at the how.

Or potentially the what but more the how.

Probably this is a disconnection from reality then, isn't it?

It is, it is, yeah.

It's connecting. As you said, that bigger picture focus with actually, how are we going to do this?

Yeah. And how are you going to follow through on that?

So I guess same question to you before.

Have you seen a leader in your experience that maybe has over relied on these strengths, tipped over that hill, as I suggested earlier on, gone down the other side where they've actually had a blind spot and haven't realized their strength is now becoming a weakness?

Yeah, I can't think of a direct example.

I can think of some people I've worked with as a coach in an organization where they have these fantastic ideas and it's almost like they flip between one idea to the next. To the next and they're constantly shifting their focus with no traction and follow through. So I've seen a number of examples of that.

And if you imagine being on the receiving end of a leader where you never know what new idea they're going to turn up with next and you know, your one to ones are just constantly, constantly trying to adapt to the latest new idea of this person. Again, it can be really frustrating.

I remember working once with a business owner like that who was brilliant at coming up with all sorts of really good ideas, innovative ideas, but the team were a bit left behind at times, thinking, actually I thought we were doing this and now we're doing that and actually we haven't quite finished doing this yet. Now we've got to do that. I think you're exactly right.

It starts to sort of create that kind of brain fog and that loss of sense of direction that a team need.

Yeah. And I think this is a real challenge for leaders, particularly in the SME market.

Yes.

You know, so entrepreneurs, for example, the reason they're an entrepreneur is they had this fantastic idea about doing this thing and you know, they're quite innovative and creative in that.

And the challenge for every entrepreneur is actually how do you translate that fantastic idea and bring it to market and make it happen and turn it into something that's concrete.

That's often why these really good entrepreneurs bring somebody in who can do that alongside them, isn't it?

Exactly right.

Because they struggle to do that. And that's part of the antidote, I guess, is if you really struggle to do this for yourself, align yourself with somebody who can help you.

Yeah, exactly. That was my next question really for the Inspiring Navigator is what is the antidote?

So somebody who is like this, what is the antidote to that blind spot?

Yeah, so the antidote is organize and deliver. Right? Okay.

Yeah.

Because they're the polar opposites, potentially the polar opposite stars of an Inspiring Navigator. So actually if you have somebody in your team who's a great organizer and deliverer, compensate by empowering them to do the delivery.

But sometimes as an entrepreneur or as a visionary leader of a team, sometimes you have to do the detailed dirty work.

Yeah, you do.

Roll your sleeves up, get the emails done, put structure and processes in place and it might be difficult to do so if the Inspire Navigator is strongly your style. So you have a very strong preference for that style.

Flexing in to the diligent builder, which is the stuff that we're talking about here, flexing into being that organizer and that deliverer that can be really challenging.

Yeah.

And I think if you think about our natural styles, one of the best moves we made in the early years of Zentano was implementing a structure to grow our business where we stuck to some key priorities every single quarter. And we didn't find a new good idea actually that we wanted to follow through on.

No, we've got the focus for the next quarter that aligns to where we want to be in a year's time and we make sure we hold each other to account and follow that through. So then for you do get the right ideas coming to fruition if you like. Otherwise it could just be a free for all, couldn't it? That's the problem.

Yeah. So there's a couple of things we've done inside Zentano because I think there's a danger in the two of us flip flopping between ideas.

I think I've seen us do that.

Yeah.

As a business.

So as you said, one of the things we've done is we've put some structure in place around process and sometimes we do that well, sometimes we don't do it so well. But the process has certainly helped us grow the business.

Absolutely.

The other thing we have done to compensate is we've got people in that have the skills to organize and deliver.

So you know, we've got Teresa and Tasha and Helen in the business that actually are great at grounding us, challenging us and making sure that we get the great ideas. Well, hopefully the great ideas that we get those done.

Yeah, no, I totally agree and you're right, we do need that because we are naturally quite good at coming up with ideas, both of us, but we've got to follow through on those.

Yeah, they're good ideas, but anyway we'll see.

Well, that's for other people to judge me.

Yes.

Okay, so let's talk about the next style then. And this is the one that's quite close to your heart, the Caring shepherd, because this is your natural style.

So for anybody listening, just to remind this is somebody who's very empathetic, that they're very supportive, they're very good at building trust inside a team and making sure the people are okay, that's the strength they bring. But when that strength again tips over into a weakness, there could be a blind spot with this. What does that look like, Rich?

So this connects earlier with what we were talking about when you asked me the question, when did I recognise a blind spot in my leadership? So I think potential blind spots for the Caring shepherd, they may have a tendency to avoid conflict.

They may be over nurturing, over protecting and not challenge their team enough, usually because they're worried about the human response they're going to get back. So a caring shepherd, in terms of their natural wiring is probably highly empathetic, maybe highly sensitive.

I would call myself a highly sensitive person. So I'm very sort of keyed in to the subtle nuances of an environment.

But the danger is you become so driven by that, so emotionally driven potentially, that actually you forget this is a business and we need to make some decisions and get the job done.

So from memory, Rich, you've talked about something like this before on the podcast when you had to make a decision in your role as head of IT about a particular new product or technology and how you maybe didn't do that in quite the right way. Looking back on it, do you want to just unpack that for us?

Yes.

So I won't tell the story in detail again because I've told you before, but essentially what happened was there's a decision we needed to make around technology. And it was very clear what the decision should be, frankly, because the market and the way the market was shifting was very clear.

So rather than just saying, right, this is what we're doing, I became too consultative. So it's all about. I was concerned about how people respond to the change.

So I was trying to be supportive and sort of gather views and, you know, building a consensus. Actually, I just needed to make the decision.

Yeah. So that's a good example of what we're talking about here.

So the antidote to this caring shepherd who is falling back on their empathy and their support nature, their trust building skills, what is the antidote to that blind spot of avoiding challenge, being overprotective, avoiding conflict.

So this is about leaning into being the challenger and the pacesetter.

Okay.

Okay. So, you know, if you're a caring shepherd and naturally empathetic, it doesn't mean you can't drive.

No.

It doesn't mean that you can't challenge. It might take more effort to do that and you might need to get over some of your hang ups around what other people think about you.

Yeah, but actually it's about leaning into that challenge or pacesetter or get someone in your team that's going to do that drive for you.

I remember very particularly there was one particular point in my leadership career where I recruited somebody to support me to get a particular project done. And they were like a whirling dervish around the organization. They needed a Little bit of direction around it, actually.

But they were the energy, they were the pacesetter, they were the person who challenged and got the job done. They did a fantastic job.

Well, that's what good leadership is in my book. You have a team of people, hopefully you've got a diverse team of people. And you, if you're building a team yourself, you should build it that way.

But use the skills and the knowledge and the experience that you've got in the team. And if someone's got stuff that you haven't, which sounds like a good thing to me, use that, empower them.

The other thing I would say is this idea of balancing support and challenge. So a caring shepherd probably is naturally very good at building rapport, building a supportive, safe environment.

Actually use that strength and bring some honesty into your conversations.

So don't hold back on being very direct and honest with people because you know, you've done the hard work in terms of building the rapport and trust. So if you can balance this, the caring approach with being direct and honest, I think that's also a really good thing for a caring shepherd to do.

Yeah. And I guess one of the keys to this is being able to develop your levels of emotional intelligence.

Because I think you said just now, you know, get over the fact that, that this might make me unpopular or worse to that effect. Actually that's a mindset issue and we have to get over that mindset issue before we translate that into behavior.

So developing your levels of emotional intelligence, where you are developing your self awareness, because that helps uncover blind spots in the first place, then you self manage better, is going to be the route to being able to do this. Not just in this Persona, but any of the Personas, to be fair. But I think particularly for a caring shepherd who is so people focused.

Yes, yes.

Okay, so let's move on to the final Persona, which is the diligent builder. So again, somebody who's very good at, as you said, structure, they'll drive quality, they'll drive on accountability.

These are some of the strengths they bring to the team. But what blind spots might a diligent builder have?

Yeah, so because these people are so driven by driving performance and getting stuff done, they are concerned about the people in the team, but it's mainly about building capability to deliver performance.

Yeah.

So these would be your project management managers, your, you know, your deliverers, if you like. So the danger here is potential micromanagement, potentially getting lost in the detail and losing focus on the big picture.

And potentially because they're so focused on quality and that's a really good thing. The flip side of that is they become resistant to risk or change. So they could be risk averse and.

I guess also at times unlikely to delegate, hold on to too much themselves.

Yes, exactly right. Yeah, exactly right, yeah.

So again, can you think of in your experience, a leader maybe who did that, held onto too much themselves, didn't delegate, didn't empower others and the impact that had on the team.

Yeah, I can think of somebody that worked with me. So I'm going to be very careful about how I phrase this, but one of the dangers of their start, that they were right into the detail.

I mean, seriously into the detail. They had really detailed project plans, Gantt charts and fantastic at all of that sort of stuff. Stuff.

But my sense was actually that their team felt micromanaged, so they have very little opportunity to feed in ideas about how they believe this should be done. And it was that person's way or the highway.

So that's a lot of frustration then created.

And when I think about that person, they were probably a mix of the bold captain and the diligent builder. So what I'm focusing on here is how their diligent builder Persona showed up.

Yeah, yeah, It's a bit of a double whammy in terms of.

Yes, if you've got somebody who has that diligent builder Persona coupled with a bold captain, there's a very, very strong focus on delivery and performance, isn't there?

It was all about performance and getting the job done and not enough on the people stuff. Yeah, I mean, that wasn't to say that this person, they weren't empathetic or didn't care about people. That's not the case.

But it's about where their focus was.

So again, causing frustration in the team, holding the team back in terms of developing and being innovative, what's the antidote for that person? So how could they effectively loosen the grip?

Yeah, well, it's about letting go. It's about letting go, frankly, and not trying to control everything.

So building trust with your people, trusting them to deliver for you and also lifting yourself out of the detail at the appropriate time, you know, so inviting that, you know, inviting a visionary conversation in the team, inviting a visionary to take the lead. I think that's really important.

So again, it comes back to my point just now about emotional intelligence. Letting go.

Yes.

Sounds easy to say, is harder to do. Yes, exactly. And we see this a lot, don't we, with senior people, actually, who have built a really Successful, successful business.

But try and get it to the next level and struggle to let go of all sorts of things.

Yeah, exactly.

Because actually they've made a successful business.

Yes. Yeah.

But actually there comes a point in, in this evolution of your business where you have to let go.

Yes. Yeah.

And that is a mindset issue.

Yes. Yeah, yeah.

And. And once you can actually get your head into that Right way of thinking. Thinking. Okay, I will let other people deliver for me.

I will coach and mentor them to better do what they need to do. And I would delegate stuff to other people. That's the way forward.

Yeah. And all these Personas actually that, I mean, they're mindset things.

Yeah, they are, they are.

And I think the other important thing to recognize is the stronger your preference is for a particular Persona, the more challenging it's going to be to flex into the diagonally opposite.

Yeah.

You know, so. So your relative preference for each of those Personas and everyone will have all of those Personas.

It's part of them as a human being because we're, we're whole human beings. So all of these Personas we have in us, it's just that we have a tendency to have a natural preference for one or two of these.

Of these Personas that shows itself up.

Yeah. And as I said, these are just lenses into different styles of leadership, aren't they?

Yeah. And you know, if you think about me, you know, my natural Persona is a caring shepherd. But.

But that doesn't mean that I can't be the bold captain, and I don't have the bold captain Persona in me. It just that it might be a little bit more hidden and I might need to make more effort to allow that to come out.

But I'm sure I don't watch you coach people because obviously that's a very one to one activity. But I'm sure that's what you do sometimes when you coach people is you flip between that caring shepherd and that bold captain appropriately.

And as we said before, actually it's balancing that, that care, being caring and supported with that honesty and directness.

Yeah. And it's about getting that balance right.

It is, yeah.

As best you can. We're never all going to get that balance right all the time. This is not about being perfect. Let's make this absolutely clear.

What we're talking about here is recognizing when your strength might be being overdone.

Yes.

Recognizing that the impact of that might not be helpful.

Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. And actually, how do we then flip. Sorry, not flip. How do we then Flex and adapt our behavior.

Yes.

Accordingly. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so sort of final reflections on this conversation.

Anybody who wants to know a bit more about the connected leadership Personas and the model, go back to the previous podcast because we've talked about that in a bit more depth. But what's the one thing you think a leader could do?

Listening to this podcast, Rich, and thinking, okay, in the next week, what can I do to break a blind spot pattern that I've got?

Yeah. Okay. So I would suggest a three step approach.

Okay.

So notice when your default strength, you know, so hopefully you have some self awareness around what your strength is. Notice when your default strength is your only gear.

Right.

You know, so in other words, you know, you notice that you're always using this strength and it's your dominant, dominant style.

Yeah.

So notice that. Ask a colleague for feedback on am I overusing this strength?

Okay.

You know, am I going to use your analogy? Have I gone over the hill?

Yeah, yeah.

And then experiment with flexing, you know, so introducing a new type of energy into. Into a, into a situation. Pick situations initially where you feel safe.

I've said this before, you know, when we choose to flex and do something very different initially, experiment. And experiment with flexing in situations where you feel safe.

Great. And I think, and if you. The starting point to experimenting with flexing is you don't know what to do.

Ask the person, what would you like to see me do for these? Don't have to come up with all the answers yourself either here.

Yes.

Okay. Brilliant. That's great. I guess my observation would be maybe not something you can do this week. This would take a bit longer.

But, but focus on emotional intelligence. If you need to learn more about it, go and learn more about what being emotionally intelligent means and start that journey of self awareness.

Because self awareness, I think, is the root to all of this, isn't it, really?

Yes. Yeah.

So, yeah, focus on building your levels of emotional intelligence.

Yeah. And be willing to try something different.

Yeah, yeah. And challenge that mindset. What is it? I don't know. Not just what is it? I do know. Yeah. Right.

So, Rich, thanks for today and thank you to anybody tuning into this episode. If you've recognized one of your blind spots today, you're not alone. There's loads of us with blind spots. We've all got them. Yeah.

But growth starts with awareness. I think that's what I said about the self awareness and a willingness, as Rich said, to try and do something different. So this has helped you today.

Share it with somebody else. In your team, share it with somebody else in your network.

But for the time being, that's it from Rich Today there are only a couple of podcasts left this season. We are going to have a little break over August. During August, we will re release some of the episodes from earlier this year.

So if you haven't listened to us in the very beginning and you want to catch up on some, we will release some of the most popular episodes so far this year over the August break. And then we will start again with some brand new episodes in September.

But for the time being, until next week, thank you for me and thank you very much.

Thank you. For me.